0:02: this is Victoria and she was a flight
0:04: instructor taking a student on his very
0:06: first
0:08: flight unfortunately something went
0:11: terribly wrong and they crashed just a
0:12: few seconds after getting airborne and
0:14: tragically Victoria did not survive
0:17: that's why today I'm going to talk about
0:18: the real pilot mistake that got Victoria
0:20: killed however that's not the only story
0:23: that we're going to talk about because I
0:25: also want to share with you the story of
0:27: Alexis she was a student pilot with an
0:29: incred future ahead of her but
0:31: unfortunately she died when her flight
0:33: instructor made a tragic mistake during
0:35: a routine training
0:38: flight now these are both two very
0:42: different stories and they both have
0:44: very tragic endings but I felt it was
0:47: important to share them both because
0:49: they both involved flight instructors uh
0:52: and uh and students and I think there's
0:55: some really good lessons that we can
0:56: take away from all this I'm Hoover
0:59: welcome to your pilot debrief again this
1:01: is a live stream something new that
1:02: we're trying out here for a little bit
1:04: and if you could please if you have
1:06: questions drop them in the uh the live
1:08: chat and I'll try to get to those at the
1:10: end uh but if you're watching this on
1:11: the replay I'm going to try to keep this
1:13: structured almost like a regular video
1:15: so you guys can get the most out of it
1:17: as possible as we walk through all this
1:20: so I want to start with Victoria's story
1:23: and give you a little bit of background
1:24: on what's Happening Here uh if you're
1:28: not familiar with her tragedy this took
1:30: place back on October 6 of
1:34: 2022 it was at the Newport News
1:37: Williamsburg International Airport which
1:39: is just to the north of norfol Virginia
1:42: and it's an area I'm somewhat familiar
1:44: with because you know I did a lot of my
1:45: flying out of Seymour Johnson Air Force
1:47: Base you know flying strike Eagles and
1:49: this airport you can see on the map here
1:51: it's right next to Langley Air Force
1:53: Base so headquarters for air combat
1:56: command for the Air
1:57: Force and I remember when this story
2:00: came out there was a lot of
2:02: speculation and rumors about what might
2:07: have taken place so I kind of want to
2:08: walk through some of that as we do this
2:11: and just for reference the flight school
2:13: where Victoria worked is located at the
2:15: North End of the airport they've got two
2:17: runways there and this was supposed to
2:19: be a routine training
2:20: flight Victoria was in the right seat up
2:24: front and her student was in the left
2:26: seat but there was also a third person
2:29: that was along for the flight sitting in
2:30: the back and when the news when the news
2:33: were agencies or or um the news
2:36: companies were reporting on this
2:37: initially they talked a lot about how
2:39: you know it was two students on the
2:40: flight and it's like well why would you
2:42: have two students on the flight and and
2:44: this and that and so we're going to get
2:46: to that as we go through these people
2:47: here in a minute but they taxied out for
2:51: takeoff uh from Runway 20 which is uh as
2:55: you can see depicted on the image here
2:57: so very short taxi uh out to the runway
2:59: getting ready to go now as soon as they
3:02: got Airborne the aircraft entered a
3:04: steep nose high pitch attitude it got
3:06: about 200 feet in the air and they
3:08: crashed off the side of the runway and
3:10: there's video footage of that that we're
3:12: going to take a look at later but for
3:14: now one of the first things that came
3:18: out with all of this was the Audio I
3:20: know a lot of you guys follow along with
3:21: live ATC uh it they're very good about
3:24: getting the audio of these tragedies out
3:27: there right away and it helps us to kind
3:28: of figure out what might have happened
3:31: uh in certain
3:33: instances and this was the radio call
3:36: that everybody was talking about 883
3:39: Runway 20 cleared for takeoff caution
3:42: wake turbulence for the intersection
3:44: from the departing Fighters right turn
3:46: on course is approved now it's not a
3:49: perfect radio call but what the
3:52: controller is essentially telling
3:53: Victoria is that there's some fighter
3:55: aircraft they're taking off from the
3:57: other Runway and at the inter section
4:00: where those two run runways meet you
4:01: know there might be some wake turbulence
4:03: that she needed to be aware of and so we
4:05: know that Victoria taken off from Runway
4:08: two we've got the fighters taken off
4:10: from Runway
4:11: 25 uh you know going that direction and
4:15: those where those two runways intersect
4:17: you know wake turbulence is definitely
4:19: something that you need to be aware of
4:20: as a pilot one of the things that I
4:23: talked about in a video a while back was
4:24: a a student pilot that crashed due to
4:27: the wake turbulence from a helicopter
4:29: that he was Landing behind because I
4:30: think wake turbulence from helicopters
4:31: is something we don't talk a lot about
4:34: but in this instance it was a big issue
4:38: that was that was brought up and people
4:39: were talking about and I kind of you
4:41: know for somebody with a lot of Aviation
4:42: experience and for those of you that are
4:44: pilots out there you can take a look at
4:45: this and we can see that based on where
4:47: the crash site is you know wake
4:49: turbulence was not really going to be a
4:51: factor in this
4:52: because the aircraft crashed before she
4:55: got to that intersection of those two
4:57: runways so it was never an issue and
5:00: that's why again it's so important not
5:02: to speculate on these things when when
5:05: they come out in the news because until
5:07: you start digging into the details you
5:09: don't really have that full picture
5:11: about everything that took
5:14: place now that the NTSB you know was
5:17: able to rule that out pretty quickly
5:20: they started taking a look at the
5:22: instructor
5:23: herself and I wanted to share her story
5:26: because I think for you know whether
5:28: you're a student pilot or instructor or
5:30: retired pilot you know wherever you're
5:33: at or even just an aviation Enthusiast
5:35: um it's it's a story that I think a lot
5:37: of people can relate to you know
5:40: reflecting back especially you know for
5:42: those of us that are that are pilots
5:44: today Victoria documented everything on
5:47: Instagram and I think it just really
5:49: showed her true love for Aviation and
5:52: how much she was committed committed to
5:54: to doing this and making this a
5:56: full-time thing her journey began in May
6:00: of 2019 so you know almost three years
6:03: prior about three years prior to when
6:04: this tragedy happened she started
6:06: working on her private pilot license she
6:09: ended up getting that about two months
6:12: later uh at the end of June of 2019 and
6:15: that meant she was most likely doing
6:17: this full-time flying you know three to
6:20: five days a week uh putting those hours
6:23: in you know really really busting her
6:25: butt to make it happen uh because
6:27: typically what what you see in some of
6:29: these tra IES is uh you know people that
6:31: are doing this on a part-time basis
6:32: because they've got careers and other
6:34: things going on and so it typically
6:35: takes a little bit longer she eventually
6:38: got her instrument rating about nine
6:40: months later in March of 2020 and then
6:43: she made this post on Instagram in
6:45: January of 2021 it was another uh nine
6:48: months you know gone by showing that she
6:50: had finally got 200 hours of Total
6:52: flight
6:53: time and then obtained her commercial
6:56: certificate in March of 2021
7:00: with the desire now to you know pursue
7:02: becoming a flight
7:03: instructor uh by November of 2021 she
7:07: was taking her written exams there's two
7:09: written exams you have you have to take
7:11: for that and then you know a few months
7:13: later she ends up becoming a certified
7:16: flight instructor in April of
7:18: 2022 uh at the time of the crash she was
7:21: 22 years
7:23: old certified flight instructor she had
7:27: about 330 hours of Total flight time
7:30: but only about 75 hours as a new flight
7:34: instructor but I think again like I said
7:37: earlier it's definitely a journey that a
7:39: lot of us can relate with you know going
7:41: going through the process of becoming
7:43: you know a pilot and then make making
7:46: those career progression moves along the
7:49: way the other thing that was obviously
7:52: something the NTSB was going to take a
7:54: look at was the student because remember
7:56: I said the news was reporting there were
7:57: two students uh on the plane with her
8:00: the truth is there's only one the
8:03: student in the front seat and in the
8:05: left seat his name was Bo and I'm not
8:08: his last name's not important I couldn't
8:10: I know what his last name is but I can't
8:12: pronounce it so I just decided to to
8:14: take it off there but I couldn't find an
8:16: image of him and that's that's not
8:17: really important either you know what we
8:20: need to talk about is this was a guy he
8:23: was 18 years old he was a freshman at
8:26: the the university he wanted to be an
8:28: airline pilot
8:30: but he had never flown before and the
8:34: what I read about him to me it made it
8:37: sound like he hadn't been on any
8:38: aircraft before not even on a commercial
8:41: aircraft and we know that he was very
8:44: nervous about conducting this flight
8:47: because this this was going to be his
8:48: very first time flying and especially
8:50: for him to be in a position where he can
8:52: control the aircraft so a lot of nerves
8:54: going into
8:56: that and that's one of the reasons why
8:59: there was another passenger on board the
9:01: aircraft the passenger ended up being a
9:03: really good friend of his uh or or a
9:05: friend of his his name was Ashton now
9:08: Ashton was he he was a student but uh he
9:12: was a student at the University but he
9:14: had he had a private pilot license that
9:16: he had already obtained and so he was a
9:18: student that was working on his
9:20: instrument rating now this wasn't a
9:22: training or an instructional flight for
9:24: him it was he was just mainly on the
9:28: flight just to provide that support uh
9:30: to his friend Bo and make him feel a
9:32: little bit better about flying now
9:34: thankfully somehow they both managed to
9:37: survive the crash and that's how the
9:39: NTSB was eventually able to kind of
9:41: piece together everything that happened
9:43: on this uh on this
9:46: tragedy the aircraft they were flying
9:48: was a 1984 cesno
9:51: 172 again you've got the three of them
9:53: in there and I don't know what size
9:56: individuals you know bow and Ashton were
9:59: uh but we know that weight and balance
10:00: was not a factor that was contributing
10:02: to the crash the NTSB didn't mention it
10:04: at all they they didn't talk about it at
10:06: all uh and usually when that happens
10:08: it's because they they dismiss it right
10:10: away in terms of whether it's a factor
10:12: or
10:13: not one of the things that they looked
10:16: at though was you know the sequence of
10:19: events that took place all the way up to
10:22: the takeoff and then you know how they
10:24: got into that situation where the
10:26: aircraft is crashing just a few seconds
10:27: after takeoff
10:30: when it comes to the pre-flight as
10:32: they're getting ready to go out to uh
10:34: the runway and and getting the aircraft
10:37: ready and stuff you know remember this
10:38: is Bose's First Flight it's supposed to
10:41: be an instructional flight so there
10:43: there's a lot to take in a lot to digest
10:45: there but there are some very simple
10:48: objectives that instructors have for a
10:50: student pilot going on their first
10:51: flight and Victoria did a pretty good
10:54: job of covering these uh based on the
10:56: interviews that they had with uh with
10:58: boow and Ashton after she talked about
11:00: here hey here's how we're going to do a
11:02: pre-flight here's how you're going to
11:03: use a checklist here's how you're going
11:05: to adjust your seat belt your shoulder
11:07: harness that sort of thing and the plan
11:11: was to let B perform the takeoff and
11:14: we're going to talk a little bit more
11:15: about that later because that's
11:17: something that's definitely going to be
11:18: a factor in in what
11:21: happened I'm going to show you a video
11:23: of the takeoff um but before I show you
11:26: that video I want to let you know it's
11:28: first it's very grainy uh video quality
11:31: because of the resolution of the camera
11:33: so it's a little bit hard to
11:35: see and oops let me pause it here and
11:41: then uh I'm G to cut it off right before
11:46: the uh the impact because there's not
11:48: necessarily anything of value that we're
11:50: going to get out of watching that but
11:52: what I want you to pay attention to is
11:54: how quickly uh this happens you're going
11:58: to see the air craft right over here
12:00: it's just above my face on the screen
12:02: here and then uh you're going to see it
12:04: kind of go above the tree line and we'll
12:06: take a
12:22: look
12:24: now you can see how fast that happened
12:29: one of the big issues that the NTSB
12:32: looked
12:33: at when you know they saw some of this
12:36: initial footage was whether B and
12:39: Victoria's seat was locked in place or
12:42: whether you know maybe there was an
12:43: issue with with the seat rail uh or
12:46: something like that because as soon as
12:48: you start pulling back on the controls
12:50: you know if if your seat's not locked
12:52: into place and that seat start sliding
12:54: back it's very easy for you to just grab
12:56: on that control wheel and pull back even
12:58: harder you know getting you you into
13:01: that excessive nose High attitude and as
13:03: I was researching that issue I wanted to
13:06: share this just brief side note here uh
13:09: because I came across this this other
13:11: story this is Brenda and she was 56
13:14: years old she's a certified flight
13:16: instructor with 18800 hours and she was
13:18: also doing you know a routine training
13:20: flight with a
13:22: student um and during
13:24: takeoff they ended up getting
13:27: excessively nose High and the aircraft
13:29: rolled inverted or rolled and crashed
13:31: inverted right on takeoff now in that
13:35: situation I think it was just relevant
13:37: to share because the NTSB determined it
13:39: was her failure to ensure that her seat
13:43: was properly secured before takeoff that
13:46: resulted in that loss of control and and
13:48: one of the contributing factors was the
13:49: lack of there was like a secondary seat
13:52: stop that was supposed to be installed
13:53: that wasn't
13:54: installed and you know it just goes to
13:59: show you
14:00: that no matter you know what you're
14:03: doing sometimes you know we have all
14:05: these holes in the Swiss cheese that
14:07: line up that contribute to the ultimate
14:10: uh reason for the crash but with
14:12: Brenda's case you know it's just a very
14:15: simple basic mistake hey she didn't
14:17: check to make sure her seat was locked
14:19: in place the seat slid all the way back
14:21: and then that's it you know and and it's
14:25: just heartbreaking uh to hear that you
14:28: know somebody with that much experience
14:31: uh could miss something like that and it
14:32: could turn out so
14:34: tragically and like I said as I was
14:38: looking at Victoria's case that that's
14:41: the reason I wanted to share this and
14:43: bring this up because I knew and
14:45: everybody else knew that that was going
14:47: to be a very important thing for the
14:49: NTSB to look at when they were uh
14:53: looking at what happened to Victoria
14:56: however you know they discovered that
14:58: based on the the examination of the
14:59: wreckage and thankfully they were being
15:02: able to interview both Ashton and Bo
15:05: they could determine that this the seats
15:07: didn't move during the flight so that
15:09: wasn't a factor that contributed to the
15:12: crash now before I I talk to you about
15:15: what the the real pilot mistake was that
15:17: got her killed uh just be sure to stick
15:20: around we're going to also remember talk
15:22: about Alexis here in the second
15:25: story now the probable cause when it
15:27: comes to Victoria was that according to
15:30: Ashton who remember he's the pilot rated
15:33: passenger he's in the back seat he said
15:35: before they took off Victoria told Bo
15:39: that she's gonna tell him when to start
15:41: pulling back on the control wheel during
15:44: takeoff however Bo said he didn't
15:46: remember that and he Al he also didn't
15:49: remember if Victoria told him how they
15:51: were going to perform the takeoff
15:54: role Ashton also said that Victoria was
15:57: on the controls during in the initial
15:59: portion of the takeoff roll until they
16:01: reached rotation speed and then she told
16:04: B to go ahead and start pulling back on
16:06: the control wheel and as Bo pulled back
16:08: on the wheel or pulled back on the
16:10: controls the airplane lifted off the
16:12: Runway but he just kept pulling back and
16:15: pulling back essentially until the
16:17: aircraft stalled and there wasn't a lot
16:19: of words exchange there because as you
16:21: saw from the video it was just you know
16:23: happened just like that there really
16:25: wasn't a lot of time for her to react I
16:27: think Ashton said or or either astronaut
16:29: or both said they remember you know
16:31: Victoria like you know kind of
16:34: um expressing some you know um shock uh
16:38: or or Screaming essentially you know out
16:41: but you know wasn't able to uh to do
16:43: anything in time and one of the big
16:46: issues that I think is really the the
16:49: the real pilot mistake in all this was
16:51: that V you know neither Bo nor Ashton
16:54: could remember Victoria providing any
16:56: instruction about the positive transfer
16:59: of flight
17:00: controls so again it's you know very
17:03: simple mistake hey you know she gave all
17:06: this instruction everything was you know
17:08: seemed to be going fine but you know you
17:09: forget to do one thing and it just turns
17:11: out so tragically and the NTSB concluded
17:14: that you know even though she had done
17:16: all that you know instruction beforehand
17:19: just missing uh this one piece of
17:22: critical
17:23: instruction it led to her getting into a
17:26: situation where she didn't really
17:27: anticipate that both was going to keep
17:29: pulling back on the controls as soon as
17:31: they got Airborne now in my opinion you
17:36: know positive transfer flight controls
17:38: is a huge thing you know anytime you're
17:40: flying whether you're flying with
17:41: another pilot or an instructor or a
17:43: passenger you've got to understand who
17:45: is flying the aircraft there should
17:48: never be any doubt and sometimes you
17:50: know it's easy to get in a situation
17:52: where you're having casual conversation
17:54: you're hey can you watch this for you
17:56: watch the controls for me for a minute
17:57: or I'm going to do this or you're going
17:58: to do that and then the next thing you
18:00: know wait a minute who's flying the
18:01: plane and who's doing what so you know
18:04: you really need to think about that
18:05: brief that thoroughly you know
18:07: beforehand if you're gonna especially if
18:08: you're an instructor flying with a
18:09: student and I think for um Victoria
18:13: remember she only had what you know 75
18:16: hours as a new flight instructor so it's
18:19: not something that she probably had ever
18:20: experienced with other students that she
18:23: had flown with and my guess is none of
18:25: the other instructors had potentially
18:27: warned her that this might be something
18:30: that she might have to deal with on a
18:31: flight and it's just you know it's just
18:34: really sad and and tragic that it turned
18:36: out the way it did um in this situation
18:41: and again as you saw from the video I
18:44: think the other thing to just remember
18:46: is
18:47: that in that takeoff environment when
18:51: you know you're generating lift and it's
18:55: just so critical to
18:59: be able to make you know to to have
19:02: effective communication when you're
19:03: flying with somebody else uh and to know
19:07: what you're going to do either when
19:08: something like this happens or when you
19:10: get into an emergency situation uh right
19:13: on takeoff because you're you're low to
19:15: the ground you don't have a lot of time
19:17: to react and you got to make a decision
19:19: quickly about about how to process
19:21: what's happening and how to take the
19:23: corrective action necessary to keep the
19:25: aircraft safely flying even if that
19:27: means you know in her situ situation you
19:29: know karate chopping his arms off the
19:32: controls or you know if she couldn't
19:34: over overpower him with you know just
19:36: full pushing full forward on the on the
19:38: control wheel just to to break the angle
19:40: of attack uh to to reduce the angle of
19:43: attack low enough to keep the aircraft
19:44: flying you know you may still crash but
19:47: at least this way you know you're not
19:49: developing into a full stall uh crash
19:52: scenario so and just something to think
19:55: about uh in this type of situation
19:59: now that brings us to the uh the story
20:01: of
20:02: Alexis and I think this was also a very
20:06: tragic story that was worth sharing you
20:09: know because you see these situations
20:12: where people want to become Pilots or or
20:15: in Victoria's case you know she be she
20:17: had just become a new flight instructor
20:19: and now with the story of Alexis you
20:22: have uh a brand new student pilot and
20:24: then the the guy to our left is is the
20:26: flight instructor that we're going to
20:28: talk about
20:30: this is a picture of the aircraft after
20:33: they were able to pull it out of the
20:35: river um where they crashed and but
20:38: unfortunately uh neither of them were
20:40: able toh
20:43: survive this story took place on the
20:46: 18th of June
20:47: 2021 it's uh not too far from
20:50: Jacksonville uh you can see Jacksonville
20:52: International uh right below my face
20:55: here on the map but um it happens at the
21:00: uh Fernandina I think is how you
21:02: pronounce that municipal
21:03: airport and you've got David and Alexis
21:07: doing a routine training flight they
21:09: were supposed to go do some training
21:11: over the St Mary's uh St Mary's River
21:14: just Northwest of the Airfield
21:19: there you can see the airport here uh
21:23: with the location of the flight school
21:26: the instructor on this flight
21:29: was held in very high regard you know
21:31: he's 66 years old he was a retired Naval
21:35: aviator uh he had quite a bit of
21:38: experience uh as a flight instructor
21:40: with about 4,000 hours of flight time
21:43: now when they go do the interviews with
21:46: you know other Pilots that had flown
21:48: with him and uh and previous students
21:51: that had flown with him what they found
21:52: was the chief instructor at the flight
21:55: school where David worked out pre
21:57: previously said he was very safety
21:58: conscious he was very
22:00: professional and I think one of the more
22:04: tragic parts to this story that came out
22:06: was they discovered that this was
22:08: supposed to be David's very last day of
22:10: flying you know he had told this was
22:13: actually his second Flight of the day
22:14: and on the First Flight of the day
22:16: that's what he had told the student on
22:17: that first flight said hey this is
22:19: today's my last day of flying because
22:21: I'm going to be retiring uh to spend
22:23: some more time with his
22:25: wife the student flying with him Alexis
22:29: was 18 years old she graduated high
22:32: school in May and the accident happened
22:34: in June so she had only been out of high
22:36: school maybe a couple weeks and had a
22:38: lot to look forward to she had about 21
22:40: hours of Total flight time she was
22:43: described as a very sharp student always
22:46: prepared took flying very seriously and
22:49: we know that she had a full scholarship
22:52: to go to Embry Riddle so a lot of stuff
22:54: to look forward
22:55: to now according to the investigation
22:59: Alexis had actually started flying while
23:01: she was still in high school and she had
23:02: been taking lessons at another flight
23:04: school where she had previously soloed
23:07: and a a diamond da20 but then she
23:10: started taking lessons with David and at
23:12: this at this new flight school and this
23:14: was her fifth flight with
23:16: David the aircraft they were flying was
23:18: a 1971 Cessna 150 and once again just
23:24: like the story with Victoria they were
23:26: able to determine there was nothing
23:27: mechanically wrong with the aircraft
23:29: that would have contributed to the
23:33: crash as I mentioned just a second ago
23:36: David had flown one flight earlier in
23:39: the day with a different student and in
23:42: the interview they had with that student
23:44: they discovered that during that flight
23:47: uh they practiced uh some standard rate
23:50: turns uh they practice low altitude
23:53: engine failure and
23:55: recoveries uh and then they also
23:57: practiced stalls but they practice those
23:59: stalls between 1,00 and 12200 feet now
24:02: the reason this is important is because
24:05: when we look at the Private Pilot for
24:07: airplane category Airman certification
24:10: standards so kind of your your
24:12: guidelines here for or the standards
24:14: that you need to meet for for private
24:16: Pilots those certification
24:19: standards tell you that you know you
24:24: need to select an entry altitude that
24:27: allows it task to be completed no lower
24:30: than 1500
24:32: ft the NTSB asked the student that had
24:36: flown with David earlier in the day you
24:37: know hey you said you're doing these
24:39: stalls and these other things you know,
24:41: to 12200 feet talk to me a little bit
24:44: more about that and and what your
24:46: history is of flying with David and they
24:47: went interviewed some other students as
24:49: well to to figure out what happened you
24:52: know and are you sure that was the
24:54: altitude you were at and that sort of
24:56: thing and they deter you know the
24:58: student said well listen there are some
25:00: instances where we and previous flights
25:03: where we might have climbed as high as
25:05: 1,800 ft but we never really got any
25:08: higher than that and definitely on the
25:09: day of the crash we were definitely down
25:12: at that thousand to to to 12200
25:14: feet so now the the NTSB has has a
25:18: pretty good idea of of what might have
25:21: contributed to the crash you know by
25:23: you've got an instructor that's may be
25:25: executing some low altitude or some
25:26: Maneuvers at an altit itude lower than
25:29: than what he should have been and I know
25:31: everybody's going to kind of have their
25:32: different take on what altitude you
25:34: should be to start these these Maneuvers
25:36: I know most people will say you know
25:37: 3,000 or 4,000 feet you know the reality
25:40: is the standard say 1500 feet you could
25:44: start that maneuver you know at600 feet
25:47: and if you complete it by, 1500 you pass
25:49: the standards but but the question is
25:53: why would you try to do that so you know
25:56: you're putting yourself in an EnV
25:58: enironment where you're reducing um you
26:02: know your ability to react and respond
26:05: to things that might happen with the
26:06: aircraft U by by intentionally
26:09: conducting stalls or or slow flight at
26:12: at a lower altitude than
26:14: necessary now the radar data from the
26:17: flight they didn't have uh the aircraft
26:19: didn't have adsb data so these were just
26:22: different uh this was the radar
26:24: composite track that the NTSB was able
26:26: to put together so it's a little hard to
26:29: assess from this directly what happened
26:31: but we know that there was nothing
26:33: eventful that took place on the
26:35: departure and then route to the working
26:37: area uh the departure happened around
26:40: 1056 local and then the crash happened
26:43: about 9 minutes later uh o over the uh
26:47: over the river up to the north we know
26:49: that once they got established up there
26:51: they were doing some 360 Dee turns those
26:55: turns were being conducted at an
26:56: altitude between 800 a th000 ft and the
27:00: last radar return the aircraft was at
27:03: 800 feet above the
27:05: ground so again well below the minimum
27:10: altitude that the aircraft should have
27:13: been when conducting you know
27:15: intentional slow flight or or stalls
27:18: that sort of
27:20: thing ultimately the NTSB determined
27:24: that the probable cause in this uh as
27:27: they looked at everything that was
27:29: feeding into this they discovered that
27:31: the flight school that davood was
27:33: working for had had a written policy
27:35: that their minimum altitude for stalls
27:39: and other airor was 1500 feet
27:42: AGL they learned that most of the
27:45: instructors at the school perform their
27:47: stalls in slow flight and Maneuvers at a
27:49: much higher altitude than 1500 feet
27:52: AGL But ultimately David had a history
27:57: not uh just with the the previous
27:59: student that day but with other students
28:01: of conducting airor below 1500 feet and
28:05: I don't say this to try to disparage
28:09: David or or paint him out to be you know
28:12: a reckless instructor or anything like
28:14: that I think sometimes you know I've
28:18: talked about normalization of deviants
28:20: before and that's where you have the a
28:22: situation where essentially you know
28:25: maybe at one point you had a standard
28:27: for where where you were going to or the
28:29: out Studio you were going to conduct the
28:30: Maneuvers at and then maybe one day
28:33: weather forced you oh instead of 3,000
28:36: feet we got some clouds that we're going
28:37: to do a little bit lower and then you're
28:39: like okay well maybe we'll do it a
28:40: little bit lower next time because I'm
28:42: I'm realizing I can save time on my
28:44: flight I don't have to spend time
28:45: climbing up as high altitude we can
28:47: knock this out a lot
28:48: quicker uh I think there was also some
28:51: discussion in this investigation about
28:53: how David really tried to focus or to
28:58: get these students to understand that
29:00: you know this is a a
29:02: critical uh environment to be in when
29:04: you're lower altitude and something
29:06: happens with the aircraft so I want you
29:08: to be able to to recognize that and be
29:09: able to recover the aircraft and I know
29:11: he uh According to some of the
29:14: interviews he talked to his students
29:16: about you know when they're flying
29:18: around low altitude make sure you have a
29:20: little bit of excess air speed in in
29:22: certain
29:23: situations where if if you're not within
29:26: gliding distance of a place where you
29:28: can land you know if you have a little
29:29: bit of excess air speed you can trade
29:31: that air speed for altitude to climb up
29:33: higher and now reassess your situation
29:36: reestablish Glide speed and then find a
29:37: place to put the aircraft down so again
29:41: I think you know I don't know because I
29:44: don't I don't know David personally but
29:45: I know that from everybody that knew him
29:47: that had flown with him they had nothing
29:49: but good things to say about him so you
29:52: know it's really tough to to humanize
29:56: these these tragedies you know we want
29:58: to look at the human factors that are
30:00: involved and nobody goes out there
30:03: deliberately wanting to kill themselves
30:06: or or or kill the person that they're
30:08: flying with you know this guy was set to
30:09: retire so I obviously just a very tragic
30:13: situation uh in the story here with
30:16: David and Alexis and ultimately the NTSB
30:19: determined that you know it was David's
30:22: decision to conduct that slowlight
30:25: training at an altitude below the flight
30:27: schools minimum altitude led to um
30:32: whether he I don't know what they
30:33: couldn't determine if he was practicing
30:36: stalls or practicing slow flight but it
30:38: put him in a in an environment where uh
30:41: the aircraft ended up stalling and his
30:43: delayed remedial action uh led to you
30:47: know them crashing into the river uh
30:50: unfortunately this you know it was
30:53: determined that they uh died on impact
30:57: um you know that
31:00: happen
31:02: so I know there's a lot of student
31:04: Pilots out there that watch these videos
31:07: I I don't want you to to walk away from
31:09: this thinking that this is G this is
31:12: something that happens to you you know
31:15: when I talk about these
31:17: tragedies just keep in mind that there
31:19: are so many safe Pilots out there and so
31:21: many Pilots doing the right thing uh and
31:24: the safety record that we have in
31:26: general you know in terms of the
31:27: Aviation Community it's a really good
31:30: safety record the things that I would
31:32: say that are good takeaways uh from both
31:35: of these tragedies are number one uh is
31:41: complacency so don't ever become
31:43: complacent whether you're a student
31:46: pilot or an instructor or even if you're
31:48: not a pilot at all I mean a lot of these
31:50: lessons can also be applied to you know
31:53: just just driving down the road it's so
31:55: easy to become complacent in the things
31:56: that we do and all it takes is one
31:59: little
31:59: mistake um and then the other thing is
32:03: the you know especially on on the
32:05: instructor side or for Pilots that have
32:07: a lot more time is the normalization of
32:09: deviants just understanding
32:12: how you know stepping away from the
32:15: standards which you set for yourself uh
32:18: or or the standards which you're called
32:19: to operate by and and sliding that
32:22: standard lower and lower because hey
32:24: well nothing happened this time so it's
32:26: not going to happen the next time you
32:28: get into those you you get into that
32:29: pattern of doing that and ultimately it
32:32: ends up you know a very tragic outcome
32:35: so I know this was a little bit shorter
32:37: live stream than normal but uh I wanted
32:40: to hit both of those and then go ahead
32:42: and open it up for questions and we'll
32:44: go from
32:46: there so I'll bring sticks up on stage
32:49: here hey there um so I was getting a
32:53: couple things down so one question that
32:55: came up with respect to wake turbulence
32:59: was what was the time interval between
33:02: when the previous aircraft was taking
33:04: off and when you would then be
33:05: attempting your takeoff and I have the
33:08: answer to that but I'll if you want to
33:09: answer it I'll let you do that you
33:12: you're talking about on the same Runway
33:14: yeah yeah yeah so when you get a caution
33:16: for Wake turbulence how much time should
33:19: you leave between when you initiate your
33:22: takeoff roll and when um your uh the
33:25: other aircraft is that interval
33:28: yeah I think I think Steve answered
33:30: there two minutes um I it's going to
33:33: depend on the aircraft category too you
33:35: know so if you're a Cessna taking off
33:37: behind a Airbus
33:39: 350 you might want to wait a little bit
33:41: longer uh right than taking off behind
33:45: you know maybe a Lear jet or something
33:48: um so so that's the big thing my my
33:51: thing I would suggest is if you're ever
33:54: in doubt or if you ever have a concern
33:56: just tell tell the tower you're not
33:57: ready
33:58: you know don't
34:00: ever get yourself forced into a
34:02: situation where you end up making a bad
34:04: decision um you can go back and look at
34:07: the video on my Channel that I did of
34:09: the um the student pilot in the
34:11: helicopter and you can see the thumbnail
34:12: looks like the uh the image of that um
34:16: you know he kind of I think felt almost
34:19: like he was talked into that situation
34:22: where you know the helicopter was like
34:24: oh don't worry about it we're just going
34:25: to do this you know and you know and
34:28: then he just kind of assumed he was
34:29: going to be okay so if if there's ever a
34:32: doubt in your mind just you know go
34:34: around if you're if you're Landing or if
34:36: you're um departing you know uh just
34:39: just delay if you need to right yeah and
34:42: my experience as well when you're
34:44: dealing with a helicopter that you got
34:45: to realize there so that's the entire
34:48: weight of that helicopter is roughly the
34:51: force that's coming out of that rotor
34:53: system so um do not underestimate um the
34:57: amount of R wash that's coming out from
34:59: there and the heavier the helicopter the
35:01: more rotor um vort vortices you're going
35:04: to see and that can completely disrupt
35:07: your lift and um cause a really bad day
35:10: and also realize that helicopters can do
35:13: non-standard Landing so while we may be
35:16: in the pattern for a Runway you may also
35:20: then be finding yourself going to a
35:21: parallel taxi way or something like that
35:24: so um yeah don't forget that they can do
35:27: a lot of weird stuff well well yeah in
35:29: this in the in the video I covered too
35:31: like what was interesting was um it was
35:34: I think it was a Blackhawk and he was he
35:36: was Landing so he he made his approach
35:38: to the numbers right at the beginning of
35:39: the runway but then he hovered taxi down
35:41: the runway right so you're still
35:44: generating a significant amount of lift
35:46: when you're doing that and and causing
35:48: wake turbulence now if he had actually
35:50: uh landed and and rolled you know like U
35:54: you know yeah if your helicopter your op
35:57: has wheels but even still you're still
36:00: generating a lot of uh vortices a lot
36:03: more than you are with a fixed Wing
36:05: aircraft and a prop so yeah um so anyway
36:09: so that was a that was question there
36:10: was there was also a question that came
36:12: up and I thought this was a pretty good
36:13: one is at what point or maybe it was a
36:16: question I was going to sort of propose
36:18: you know so at what point do pilots do
36:21: their risk actually go up so you get
36:23: your private pilot's license and then
36:25: there's a general hour window
36:28: um where we tend to see a higher risk
36:30: for mishaps and
36:31: accidents I don't I I think that's kind
36:34: of false you know um I don't know so
36:39: when I I I did a good quick look on that
36:41: and it's somewhere between 50 you know
36:43: by some estimat is 50 to 300
36:45: hours yeah you know I think a lot of
36:48: it's the mentality and how you approach
36:50: it um so yeah I I've I've heard people
36:54: refer to a certain window of hours as
36:57: like The Kill
36:58: Zone um where you're at the highest risk
37:01: um I I think I've done a little bit of
37:03: research on this a while back and I feel
37:05: like I want to say that you know it's
37:08: it's really it's not as black and white
37:11: as what people think it is because we
37:13: see that you know I mean you guys know
37:16: from watching the videos on this channel
37:17: like a lot of the tragedies I've covered
37:19: these are you know all much older pilots
37:22: who have thousands of hours of
37:24: experience you know and every now and
37:26: then it's it's it's a student pilot you
37:28: know that actually I'll say very rarely
37:31: it's it's it's a brand new pilot you
37:33: know that I think you won't see the the
37:38: kind of Reckless mistakes and other
37:40: stuff with with the younger uh pilot
37:42: somebody who doesn't have a lot of hours
37:43: you see just like the you know they
37:45: don't know what they don't know and
37:47: we've talked about this before the
37:48: Dunning Krueger effect how you know
37:51: brand new pilot you you tend to
37:52: overestimate your your skill capability
37:55: um and underestimate the danger that you
37:57: might be in for a given situation or or
38:00: the threat that the weather might
38:01: represent whereas on the flip side you
38:04: know you've you've got you know the
38:05: older Pilots that kind of um
38:09: overestimate well I I don't know the
38:10: right word for it but they're they're
38:12: basically they're very confident what
38:13: they're doing because they've done it
38:14: for so long and and they underestimate I
38:17: guess how much skill it takes to
38:19: actually do what they're doing you know
38:21: right so it's kind of like a curve yeah
38:25: there's I think there's like a there's
38:27: certain Gap that exists between you know
38:30: competency and proficiency you know and
38:33: you know competency being that you can
38:35: routinely get into the aircraft and do
38:37: the Maneuvers safely without an adver
38:40: without having a you know a problem with
38:42: it versus demonstrating that you're
38:45: competent at one point in time so yeah I
38:48: got I'm gonna throw a couple questions
38:50: on here um about David's career I don't
38:53: I don't know the fa standards didn't
38:56: change during his career
38:58: not that I'm aware of and he was um uh
39:01: what one of the things I didn't mention
39:02: about him he was a uh an
39:04: a6e intruder um Bombadier naor he was in
39:09: nfo I was looking when I was looking at
39:10: his um flight suit his wings are nfo
39:13: flight
39:14: wings but he had he retired out of the
39:17: the Navy in 1999 and then he had a
39:20: significant amount of time uh as a
39:23: commercial pilot uh and flight
39:25: instructor so all those hours that I
39:27: mentioned that that was all his as far
39:29: as I'm aw flying hours yeah those were
39:32: his you know as a rated pilot you know
39:35: um but the regardless of whether the
39:38: standards changed or not the school had
39:40: a defined set of standards that he was
39:42: supposed to be operating by and for some
39:45: reason he wasn't you know so um so that
39:49: that's
39:50: unfortunate um I I think your point
39:52: about um three-way transfer controls so
39:56: in other words I have the controls you
39:58: have the controls I have the controls
40:00: yeah you know that so that that positive
40:03: transfer closed loop communication is
40:05: essential especially in the instructor
40:07: environment um and it's surprising to me
40:10: how often it's not practiced yeah and it
40:14: really should be
40:15: standard um do they even practice stall
40:18: recovery at all yes you do practice
40:20: stall recovery for student Pilots that's
40:22: a very critical skill uh you have to
40:26: know um 1500 foot stalls yeah I mean I
40:30: wouldn't be doing them I mean you you
40:32: could start that that um you could do
40:35: your slow flight at 1500 feet and as
40:37: long as you stay above 1500 feet you've
40:39: met the standards you know um or I could
40:42: start my like I said the I could start
40:44: my power on stall or offall right at
40:47: 1500 feet and as long as I'm you know do
40:50: it exceptionally well and don't lose any
40:52: altitude I'm fine but but but why like
40:55: you know there there's just no reason
40:57: give yourself that extra altitude uh
41:00: when you can and then as far as I know
41:03: flight instructors are not required to
41:04: have any liability insurance now the
41:06: flight schools that they operate
41:09: for most likely are carrying some type
41:12: of insurance I I don't know all the
41:14: specifics on that though what's what's
41:16: interesting and what was new to me was
41:20: students when they now go start flight
41:23: instruction they actually have to go get
41:25: their own insurance um as part of like
41:29: so my son started flight lessons he
41:31: needs to he needed to get and obtain his
41:34: own insurance policy um which I found
41:37: interesting so yeah I I didn't have to
41:39: do that in the
41:40: 90s no um and then um there was also an
41:44: interesting question that came up is
41:46: like somebody brought up the question
41:47: about how old why these planes are so
41:49: old and you know why aren't there newer
41:52: planes and is that contributing and so I
41:55: don't know if you want to speak to that
41:56: it's you know I'll get to that ju Just a
41:58: second I hit this one here uh and I
42:00: don't know that do younger instructors
42:02: generally charge less than experienced I
42:04: would say no um it it's gonna a lot of
42:07: that's driven by the flight school
42:09: specifically uh otherwise if you're not
42:10: doing it through the flight school then
42:12: it's going to be the negotiated rate you
42:14: know if you're doing like one-on-one
42:16: flight instruction you know so um the
42:19: the question about the aircraft though
42:21: because I I get that a lot of times is
42:22: you know like well the problem is these
42:24: planes are so
42:25: old and it's just that's just the way
42:27: aircraft are built you know but people
42:29: need to realize these aren't like you
42:31: know your they're not like cars you know
42:34: uh they're very different in how they
42:36: operate and not just how they operate
42:38: but how they're maintained and then the
42:40: requirements for annual inspections and
42:43: and everything else you know uh
42:45: compliance with directives and things
42:47: like that to ensure uh the aircraft
42:50: continue to operate in a safe and
42:51: functional manner
42:53: um and if we were to go back if you were
42:56: to go back and look at all of the
42:58: mishaps that I've covered on this
43:00: channel I don't know that any of them
43:04: were you know the main cause was a uh an
43:07: air a malfunction with the aircraft now
43:10: there might have been uh there's there's
43:12: a couple where yep the pilot did
43:14: everything he could something happened
43:16: mechanically with the aircraft that led
43:19: to a situation where the pilot had to
43:22: respond and you know either run a
43:25: checklist or perform the correct action
43:28: to keep the aircraft flying safely and
43:30: the pilot failed to do so either because
43:33: they were too low altitude or because
43:35: they weren't current or
43:38: proficient uh with with their flying
43:40: skills enough to actually be able to do
43:42: that so those are the issues it's you
43:44: know we still see to this day it's it's
43:47: almost always pilot error you know right
43:51: and if you're going to go out and do
43:53: Maneuvers like slowlight or stalls and
43:57: you know you the instructor haven't done
43:58: them in a while then you should go get
44:00: go out in the plane before you take a
44:02: student out and you know practice them
44:04: before you now trying to instruct and
44:07: you know knock your cobwebs off so to
44:10: speak yeah yeah and and and thanks for
44:14: the Super Chat you know it it's hard
44:17: like because you know you want to talk
44:18: about the human factors involved but you
44:20: also want to be respectful of of the
44:22: family and I'll share a real quick story
44:25: uh I this past week I was out at vid
44:27: Summit uh which is where all like the
44:29: the you bunch of YouTube creators go to
44:32: learn from other creators you know stuff
44:34: about YouTube and I sat down at a table
44:37: with this with this gentleman you know
44:39: shook his hand said hi hey what what do
44:41: you do what do you do and uh pointed my
44:44: shirt I'm like oh I'm pilot debrief you
44:45: know I talk about Aviation mishaps and
44:48: he's like oh and he like he started
44:51: getting a little emotional he's said
44:52: well you know I just lost some friends
44:55: uh last month uh you know I was I was
44:58: friends with some people that you know
45:00: he's like he might have heard of them
45:01: the the neans the Gospel family yeah
45:04: yeah and I was like oh crap you know I'm
45:08: like and I'm like like I just made a
45:10: video on that you know and
45:15: so as as I've said in other videos on
45:17: this channel I think maybe in live
45:19: streams before like I never want to say
45:21: something in a video that I wouldn't
45:22: feel comfortable saying to somebody you
45:25: know face to face like as a friend or
45:27: family member of somebody that survived
45:28: the crash so we had a really good
45:30: conversation about you know I told him
45:32: like I did not want to cover that crash
45:34: um you know right when um uh right when
45:39: it happened just because there was you
45:41: know stuff we still didn't know about it
45:43: and it's it's so easy to
45:46: speculate and you know I I don't I don't
45:49: want to do that so that's why it took me
45:52: some time to make sure I get was able to
45:54: get as much information on it as I could
45:57: and then also find another tragedy that
46:00: was similar enough uh that had similar
46:03: circumstances that I could talk to
46:05: because that other tragedy was was what
46:07: had all the information that I think
46:09: we're going to find ultimately when the
46:11: nean investigation is complete you know
46:15: um so generally there's a there's an
46:17: adage Within These mishaps that you know
46:19: there's no new mishaps there's repeats
46:21: of old mishaps and you don't have to dig
46:24: too deep to to find similar similar
46:27: patterns um within that and you know
46:30: that's what we have to be aware of
46:31: that's what we have to be looking for
46:33: and it's up to us to police ourselves
46:34: and that's why I think the whole concept
46:36: of being an aviator is a vocation and
46:39: not necessarily just um you know a hobby
46:43: that we get into so yeah and this goes
46:46: back to the earlier question but uh you
46:48: know I in terms of when an airframe
46:50: needs to be retired I think it's
46:52: ultimately going to be a maintenance
46:53: maintenance call you know on the
46:55: structural wear and tear maybe one too
46:57: many hard Landings you know um but it's
47:01: that's ultimately part of the um
47:04: inspection process on the aircraft and
47:06: and for maintenance you know let the
47:07: experts make that call and that's why
47:09: like I think you know for a lot of um
47:12: general aviation Pilots if you own your
47:14: own aircraft you need to be you know
47:16: working with somebody that's qualified
47:18: to do the maintenance you know if you're
47:19: not qualified to do that yourself
47:21: sometimes you get you see these
47:22: situations where an aircraft is overdue
47:24: for an inspection you know and and that
47:27: is a mechanical issue maybe that
47:28: contributed to the crash but usually if
47:31: if the Pilot's you know skimping out on
47:32: the maintenance like there's there's
47:34: other stuff going on too um you know in
47:36: terms of the pilot behavior that
47:38: contributes to the
47:41: mishap um so there is let's see and
47:45: actually I think those were all the ones
47:47: that sort of stood out to me there was
47:49: one interesting question that somebody
47:51: asked about how do you get over a fear
47:53: Heights when it comes to Flying and um
47:57: the thing is it's going to be time in
47:58: the
47:59: aircraft and um and you know it's also
48:03: you could try some other things like
48:05: hypnosis and um you know also just you
48:09: know a little bit of uh trying to work
48:11: on you know getting yourself more
48:14: centered and mindful and it's just it's
48:17: time and repetition um is is the only
48:20: thing that I could potentially recommend
48:23: um the problem becomes if you start
48:25: asking or thinking or considering
48:26: medications obviously medications and
48:29: flying uh don't work very well together
48:32: so yeah okay well I'm going to go ahead
48:35: and wrap it up I know like I said it was
48:37: a little bit shorter live stream but I
48:38: think those are two kind of important
48:39: stories to cover and a little bit
48:41: different you know flavor in terms of
48:43: the the missp that was involved uh I
48:45: want to thank everybody so much for your
48:46: support if you guys want to support the
48:48: channel head over to patreon and find me
48:50: on patreon you can support me there or
48:52: you can become a YouTube channel member
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48:55: cool av8 na commun communicate shirts on
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49:07: docomo for free uh and YouTube loves it
49:10: when you watch more stuff on the channel
49:12: and I appreciate it too so that's all I
49:15: got appreciate yall great thanks thanks
49:18: Hoover great job as always